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EP98 John Neubert $3-4 Million Neubert Painting

Marketing, Sales, Business Coach, Painting Leads, Business Coach

EP98 John Neubert $3-4 Million Neubert Painting

INTRO:

On this episode of DYB Podcast, our John Neubert discuss professional sales training  and negotiation skills. The importance of having a visionary and implementer, a new business idea for kitchen cabinet refinishing, the power of customer service, and delegating responsibility for growth. 

John Neubert also shares succession plan for the company and the importance of finding the right fit for different roles. Don’t miss this episode’s insights and tips to help you to Double Your Business!

Get your free strategy call with Steve here: https://scheduleyourfreestrategycall.as.me/schedule.php

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TRANSCRIPT:

00:00.00

dybsteve

What happened?

00:02.40

John

Well when I was in my some of the earlier years of the business we were painting a house on this cut through street and we were going over colors with the lady in my office. People were and this lady wanted a yellow house and all our samples weren’t yellow enough. So we kept bringing brighter and brighter yellow samples out and finally when we painted the house. It was so bright. Yellow it was like the yellow and the ah that you’d have in the street in the. Center line and we couldn’t decide whether we were gonna keep our sign up or not. We put our sign up. We took our sign down. We put our sign up and what did happen is all the cars stopped there where they all stopped to take a look at this house and it’s sort of embarrassing in a way but the way we ultimately.

 

00:48.47

dybsteve

Here.

 

00:55.21

dybsteve

Um, yeah.

 

00:59.00

John

Blameed it on us that we picked the wrong cows but to she was just being being an obstinate old lady So that’s so we got we got We got a lot of ah so we get our sign up most of the time so we got a lot of advertising out of that. So good or bad. Yep.

 

01:13.23

dybsteve

There you go there, you go and did all kinds. Ah fantastic. Well today’s guest is John Neubbert of newbert painting from Cleveland Ohio John’s been a member of Duib since 2016

 

01:18.23

John

Um, yep.

 

01:28.42

dybsteve

And he was first on the podcast back in 2018 episode 33 so if you want to hear the full backstory make sure you check out episode 33 there. It’s a fantastic interview he shares ah how he started his business back in the 70 s at just 18 years old. He has now been in business for 48 years consistently producing 3 to $4000000 in sales each year John welcome back to the show my friend so what you’re 66 now.

 

01:55.31

John

Kept good. See it safe. Thanks.

 

02:03.38

John

Yeah, um I am 66 I’ve been doing this a long time I’m still real active in the business. My daughter works in the business with me and I’ve couple operations managed my office manager so we run this thing together. Ah I’m slow down a little bit but I’m still.

 

02:04.75

dybsteve

Okay.

 

02:15.77

dybsteve

Okay.

 

02:20.45

John

I’m still I don’t run operations but I still sell a lot I’m still I’ll sell over I’ll sell personally over $1000000 worth of work a year so I’m out I’m out talking to customers every day just a little bit unusual because a lot of lot of business owners quickly discard the selling function and. And just become the Ceo of the company and hi your salespeople and things like that I’ve I’ve always felt it felt it important to be to be out there to get the puzzle. What’s going on but I I’m good at it I like it. Yeah, so.

 

02:42.82

dybsteve

Um, so.

 

02:50.60

dybsteve

You enjoy the sales component as well. Yeah I get it. Um your drive. So I’d love to dive into sales sales. Always fun to talk about but first where does your drive come from.

 

03:04.94

John

Ah I don’t I don’t know I mean people my generation just worked really hard. So now I was 11 or 12 I was cading I I worked in a grocery store before I started painting and started the business while eighteen we had did 6 houses the first summer eight the second summer. My brother had been painting for a guy.

 

03:09.26

dybsteve

Um.

 

03:22.45

John

So We just one day I I told him hey let’s start our own painting company and I quit my job at the grocery store and and and the business just grew from there So But the the drive comes probably for my parents and stuff like that. They’re all hardworking people. All my siblings are really all of us are really Hardworking. So.

 

03:42.51

dybsteve

Okay, so you came up in it. The generation culture family. Um, indeed now back to sales and um, enjoying it. Do you recall way back when estimating was the toughest when we first started Out. And how maybe we didn’t enjoy it and so my question though is that like it’s the grinding through and developing the skills that produces the passion right? So now. It’s like we’re great at Sales. So We love it. Ah was that true for you in the beginning though because I know for me I struggled.

 

04:07.65

John

Um.

 

04:13.65

dybsteve

Right? Went trying to learn sales and understand it and it wasn’t something that I might have enjoyed until I won one and then it’s like yay but then the next 20 or whatever you’re still trying to grind it out. Do you remember way back when trying to figure out sales if if the passion was there or if it was developed once the skills kicked in.

 

04:31.32

John

I think I always always liked it and I may have had some natural skills with it. Ah, but what I didn’t have was a system to use and today we work off a system that was basically developed by us. But we we had done.

 

04:37.82

dybsteve

Um.

 

04:46.59

John

We had professional sales training along the way and we used some elements of that that and today we all, we all have pretty much the same the way what we do when we’re out ah on on a sales call. It’s about the same.

 

04:59.45

dybsteve

Can you share a little bit more about the system.

 

05:02.54

John

Yeah I mean basically when you’re out selling selling. You’re you’re trying to solve people’s problems and so so it’s it’s It’s really pretty easy I mean the buying and all that and I mean there’s all sorts of sales techniques and all that and something. Yeah, but. That’s not the real the real. The real key is to biing with the people you’re there for a reason they they have a problem that needs to be solved you you might have the Solution. You might not I mean I may go out to a house and and I realize that needs to be vinyl sideed now give it. They all give them the name of somebody. They should call to get vinyl Sighted. So I don’t always have the solution and so if it if if you come across authentic and not self-serving. You’re gonna do. You’re gonna do way better in sales If you’re just trying to sell Jobs. And and and you’re not willing to walk away from ones that really aren inappropriate. Yeah, you’re you’re you’re not, You’re not gonna do as well. That’s that’s basically the nutshell.

 

05:59.72

dybsteve

Indeed. Yeah yeah, no, that’s fantastic. Thank you appreciate that you mentioned I’ve gone through some professional sales training through the years who were some of those or what were some of those.

 

06:12.50

John

Ah, the well the main one is ah what we did back then was a long time ago we were we were active in their group with Sandler sales. Um, it Sandler sales are pretty heavy stuff I mean it. It uses a lot of manipulation.

 

06:20.30

dybsteve

I mean.

 

06:29.80

John

And so some of that some of that is ah some of the techniques are just natural to us. We use them but we don’t we don’t use heavy sand or I’m not I’m not a huge fan of it today I if I if I if you really want to get sales stuff. That’s.

 

06:29.73

dybsteve

Um.

 

06:47.98

John

That for free I would recommend following um a group of people that they their consultants that they’re they’re in the market to sell stuff but they they have a lot of free content if you get on their email list and their techniques are phenomenal is a group called the black swan group and these are former Fbi. Ah. Ah, high state negotiators and they’ll they’ll teach you a lot of lot lot of stuff that will help you negotiate with people better and help your selling process.

 

07:18.98

dybsteve

The black swan group that reminds me of what’s his name. He wrote the book never split the difference.

 

07:25.61

John

Yeah, that’s probably that I think I don’t know if that’s them or not. But but the 1 technique the 1 technique that’s that Sandler doesn’t teach is basically when you’re in a sales call and you’re trying to differentiate yourself from competitors is making sure that people know what they’re not going to get from somebody else going down that list of you know.

 

07:29.12

dybsteve

In turn.

 

07:45.40

John

Here’s what you’re not going to get thatda and people respond better to that that and and and Sandler does not have that’s not part of the sandler sales program. But it’s probably 1 of the best best techniques that you you can use and that and that’s one and that’s one of the things that they if you read their literature. That’s one of things that they.

 

07:47.31

dybsteve

Um.

 

07:55.74

dybsteve

Okay.

 

08:03.27

John

They would they would talk about.

 

08:05.34

dybsteve

You’re ah you’re well readad if you did you read? um influence by chaldii. Okay, all right. He talks about perceptual contrast and so it sounds like that’s the point you’re making here which is powerful now. Where would you you mentioned Sandler’s heavy and.

 

08:08.38

John

No no I did not no no.

 

08:22.42

dybsteve

Um, what did manipulation or a little heavier on manipulation I remember Sandler it looked into it a little bit I wasn’t um, this has probably been ten fifteen years ago and I didn’t get into it all the way. So I don’t know everything about their system. But what would you say? Where’s the line or what’s the difference between influence and manipulation at what point are we going too far.

 

08:44.85

John

Ah, that’s that’s a gray area of slippery slope. It’s hard to hard to It’s hard to say where where that is but I mean a lot of old sales which still exist are the living room sale and sand la Sandler teaches a little bit of living room sale and that’s the sale where you want the husband and wife. Both in the both in the living room to make the sale and and certainly it’s it’s ideal if you can be in the house at their kitchen table and all that but but that’s that’s not always true and we’re our customer base is a lot of high income professionals and number one they don’t have time so they’re not going to give you a lot of time.

 

09:08.54

dybsteve

Okay.

 

09:22.90

John

And and and they know all this stuff. They’ve been through all this training so they can see it. They can they they see it right? So they did that they’re not going to sit through it. So personally I’m not going to sit through a presentation where a guy’s goingnna foot through a bunch of slides I’m not Goingnna give him a lot of time. My wife doesn’t care about anything to do with home improvement. So she so.

 

09:30.92

dybsteve

Um.

 

09:33.00

dybsteve

Faster.

 

09:41.89

John

So some some people make a requirement that the wife is there which is ridiculous because today the the nuclear family that we know it but that we knew isn’t isn’t as common. We’re dealing with all sorts of situations with customers. And which are perfectly normal and and my my feeling is whoever’s going to meet with you. Even if they’re not the decision maker certainly has a big influence on the decision maker usually usually the decision makers can be is Goingnna make they’re gonna they’re going to try to make sure that they’re the ones talking to you.

 

10:12.69

dybsteve

Interesting. Okay for a good point I like that. Thank you, you started to share here in the opening about some your your operations managers and such would you give us an overview of your org chart because you ramp up sorry does you ramp up to what 80 guys.

 

10:15.13

John

Him.

 

10:26.70

John

Yeah, right now we yeah right now we have all 2 Yeah, we have to ah well, we’re running around 75 people at our peak. What at one point we had 130 people seasonally but our companies change. We do a little less seasonal business and we do more interior business. We have 10 full time interior painters that.

 

10:32.64

dybsteve

10

 

10:44.45

John

Inside and and cabinets. Um I have 2 operations managers and um, one mathsman with me since 1987 and he he started as 18 and then we’re supported by office staff of of 3 full time office people and. Um, and then we pick up three more there in the summer so yeah we have we have a big big big support staff in that the support the summer operation. So.

 

11:14.72

dybsteve

Now you ah your your ops managers. They do well I mean they get paid 6 figures if I recall right? you shared that at a public event once so without going into details. You know.

 

11:17.83

John

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they yeah they get paid right? a lot so we work we work off the same bonus pool and I’m a big believer in sharing sharing the what what we make and it’s. So what? what we do? Our our bonus system is sort of uncommon and would be hard to copy because you have to have the mindset that you’re willing to share everything and it’s sure and that sure that that goes up the head down so we go up and down together while we have between good years and bad years. But it’s it’s It’s a little little bit different different system. So than most most.

 

11:40.14

dybsteve

Me.

 

11:50.59

dybsteve

And.

 

11:53.61

John

Most people have have a tough time getting their arms around what we do.

 

11:58.31

dybsteve

Okay, so 10 ah full time and then so you pick up another you know, sixty seventy in the summer

 

12:04.80

John

Yeah, we’ll have this year maybe about 55 to 60 people seasonally so it working for us. These are all these are all employees except for 2 carpenters that are sub subcontractors. We.

 

12:11.29

dybsteve

Now are these employees or Subs. No.

 

12:21.48

John

We we hired mostly college people for exterior work and so we’re we’re hiring people after their senior year in high school sometimes after freshman year of college and we’ll keep them from maybe just one summer to maybe 2 3 4 summers and that they move on.

 

12:38.48

dybsteve

So if you’ve been in the industry for a while which you know we have you’ve noticed that college pro is ah is a big organization and there have been many guys who’ve left college pro and started their own businesses.

 

12:50.85

John

Oh.

 

12:53.80

dybsteve

Ah, do you find? ah that for yourself as well as you’re hiring these college guys. Do they some of them go off and say hey I ah I can do this and start their own business.

 

12:59.39

John

Um, Don people have done that we’ve had a couple managers that have successful businesses that went off on their own and our painters that have went off on their own stage small small shops but a couple of the manager I 2 managers that left. Um.

 

13:16.16

dybsteve

And.

 

13:19.34

John

Probably about fourteen years ago that 2 2 brothers and they they were on a operation. That’s a little bit more geared towards doing commercial work and they there and they’re said their sal for that volume is probably a little higher than ours and then we had another manager left and he he reruns an operation that’s the size.

 

13:30.45

dybsteve

Me.

 

13:37.75

John

But our paint our painters themselves they they don’t have the match. They don’t have the management knowledge that that we that that that that they need to to get beyond having just 1 or 2 people. So we’ve never seen any of them become decent size.

 

13:50.85

dybsteve

Okay, leadership skills skills a long way right? yeah.

 

13:56.44

John

Yeah, yeah, they learn they by by um, how managers learn a lot here and they they they know they know how to run a run run a good day. Good good size operations. That’s what they’re taught how to do some.

 

14:05.32

dybsteve

Yeah, no doubt what’s what’s your hiring process look like currently.

 

14:12.74

John

Um, we um, we’re hiring ah basically college guys. We had tough tough time during a pandemic hard and we couldn’t get people in for interviews. It it was it it our sorry our the quality of our our labor dropped a lot. We put a huge emphasis on we put a huge recruitment campaign out this year am we wage raised our wages significantly where where we we think we’re above market. It’s an in service industry for for wages and currently we have we’re we’re an overhire situation and we have ah we we we’re developing a huge list of people deprived twenty thirty people there that. Look fully qualified that we’re we can’t we’re not, we’re holding off on any even interviewing him so we’re we’re in an overhire situation but the but the the paint market is turning right now. So this is happening right? when demand’s started taking a tumbble demand’s not very strong right now. So this is a.

 

15:03.33

dybsteve

Um.

 

15:16.52

John

So what happened during a pandemic. We had crazy amounts of demand and not enough labor and I my judgment right now is it. It S flipped probably.

 

15:24.56

dybsteve

So there’s oh it’s flipped. Finally, so it’s back to the way it used to be where guys are looking for work.

 

15:31.95

John

So oh absolutely yeah, but but we’re but supporting as we we pay. Ah we put we’re paying a really high wage I mean we’re we’re starting guys at the guys that start with this this summer will make an average about about 21 $22 an hour that guys at no experience.

 

15:37.64

dybsteve

Man.

 

15:50.23

dybsteve

Wow A little bit different from when we started. Ah.

 

15:50.31

John

So yeah, that’s it’s crazy. But and I’d and I’d say that’s that’s that’s a little bit above Market average and so when I see companies with help wanted signs and they can’t hire people I mean we’re hiring those people from the from places like that and frankly, they’re not. They’re not.

 

15:57.70

dybsteve

Yeah.

 

16:08.36

dybsteve

Yeah, indeed so I mean obviously the economics means that you have to raise your price to hold margins and then then that also requires you know great branding marketing repeat referral and sales skills as well.

 

16:08.78

John

They’re not paying enough.

 

16:18.45

John

Um.

 

16:27.33

John

Ah, yeah I mean if we didn’t have the repeat business. We’d be in trouble but we have huge. We have a huge repeat business which are easier to sell and so some of these jobs are going on. You’re you’re sometimes going out there and you give them a price that might be. If we worked for him twelve thirteen years ago their price probably is doubled. Maybe maybe more than that and and if they’re pretty loyalty to you and you’ve been servicing them. They ah, they’re gonna be theyll most cases go along with with with retirty again. So.

 

16:45.64

dybsteve

Here.

 

16:57.46

dybsteve

Indeed so step 9 in the ub system staying top of mind. What are some methods that you employ to do this.

 

17:06.80

John

Real simple we have ah we we have currently 4900 customers people that are are active in our system and so we keep them in. We keep them in our system unless they they move move or something and. Our mayo are so so we we reach them 2 different ways they get they get a mailer once a month and they get probably today about 2 emails a month reminding him about our in our interior services and stuff so they we we and and and and most of that stuff. Probably hits their inbox and they just delete it or hits their mail and gets thrown in the garbage. But so even if they don’t open it and read the message your name stays in front of them and they know who you are so. That’s what’s that.

 

17:47.70

dybsteve

How often I’m sorry so how often do you mail or email them.

 

17:54.81

John

Yeah, what what 1 email month and 2 email to 2 emails a month so so you so you’re ah it that is. It’s the cheapest marketing that you can do and most people don’t do it. So I bet 95% of

 

17:58.91

dybsteve

Gotcha. Okay.

 

18:12.61

John

People in our business. Do not keep they don’t stay in touch with their pay with people after they’ve painted this ah it’s it’s It’s so easy to.

 

18:19.95

dybsteve

Yeah I agree 100% I heard a stat once I don’t don’t know how you can confirm it. But it says that it’s 500% cheaper to sell a current customer repeat customer than is to get a new new customer I believe the principle I don’t know if if you can improve that is 500% cheaper however

 

18:32.70

John

Position.

 

18:39.49

dybsteve

I agree with you that most people do not and you know I often think about that and I wonder if it’s because all a habits die hard when we get started in the business. It’s new leads new leads because we don’t have any leads and so we just keep going and hustling after new leads that we forget that we have this whole pool of raving fans that already know alike and trust us. And if we just stay top of mind.

 

18:55.88

John

Yeah, yes, we we did that from pretty much from the beginning and so when I was in business school I have an Mba in business and so my mentor was a head of department ah head of the waiver management labor department at cleveton state and I had him for. Undergrad and and grad and he he taught entrepreneurial studies and she just teach strategic planning and 1 of the things he taught us was back then there was there was a company called radio shack and Radio Radio Shack which is no longer in business but they they what they were really good at is they they captured they were they were.

 

19:17.42

dybsteve

What.

 

19:25.16

dybsteve

Um, tell.

 

19:32.77

John

Of the first retailers to capture the information of who you of who the customers were to when you in went radio shack they they got your information and I don’t know if it was some club you bought so many things you got a free thing or something like that but they captured your information and the next thing you know you were getting a circular in the mail from radio shack regularly. And and and in its time it was a goto place for finding all sorts of electronics that that weren’t weren’t easily available. So so.

 

19:58.60

dybsteve

Yeah I remember components to stereo ad units the old ones we had in the the the cabinets in the in the home to you know Tvs yeah radio shack was a staple back in the day and so there were that I didn’t know that they were the first ones.

 

20:11.69

John

And but they well they were among the first ones most most retailers didn’t do that today today. They know all all the retailers are phenomenal at that and obviously you you buy anything online. They capture your your email and then they. Email you every single day until you unsubscriber and answer something I mean or or if you also so want to sit there and hit the delete button. You know, delete the delete out 50 emails every time you go in.

 

20:35.52

dybsteve

Yeah, yeah, yeah, indeed. Um, we’ve had some fun discussions you and I over the years about tech stack and and whiteboards and and you know job flow. Processes any updates to yours or give us a quick review of yours please? Ah, yeah yeah.

 

20:57.61

John

Um, as far as I’m not sure what you’re looking. You’re looking at what we use for to do our stuff or well we have ah we have our own we have a cr system that we built like fifteen twenty years ago that we just use on our computers. And so we have so that’s on our server and that that only is used in the office and that’s that’s that was a custom made database and it’s thrill stable. The guy that did it I pay him a retainer every month and he never has to do anything because we don’t we don’t change that much once’s a while will make a change and so that’s that’s ah, that’s our. Actual crm system. Um, and obviously I’m a big spreadsheet guy tons of excel files um, what what we did do. That’s different though though is we we really managed the company today off of our phones we we.

 

21:50.19

John

Our scheduling and everything everything that’s going on. But if I need to know where our what what painters on what crew or how many certifications he has in our training system or or what? what my schedule looks like coming up the next week or looking at our interior schedule. What’s on it. It’s all on Google docs and Google docs is just a free resource and so we’ve and I’m just amazed how much stuff we have on Google docs I mean it’s just like like endless and but we we’re literally managing a good part of our of what we do. As far as the scheduling part right? off off off of Google backs. So.

 

22:27.66

dybsteve

Indeed so let’s see you’ve been at this 48 years what does the future look like for you as there a succession plan or an exit in mind. Are you just going to ride this in to the sunset.

 

22:42.78

John

It’s a good question. Well my daughter’s in the business I mean so so she’ll continue own it probably she’ll be running it with 1 of my operations managers. My head operations manager will he’s he’s the he’ll he’ll he’s he’s basically runs the company today as far as the. Management of actual being out in the field and stuff like that. So I’m not out in the field much and so he’s he’s the natural successor that’s a good question. Ah the the ah.

 

23:05.55

dybsteve

Um.

 

23:13.21

John

Companies like ours. It’s 50 50 and successful transitions into a new generation managers and all that does it so that’s that’s ah, that’s a transition that that but we talk about a lot. My skill set is if I wasn’t big company I ah I’d be a chief financial officer I’m a numbers guy I know how to analyze stuff and. Figure out strategy I’m really really good with vision stuff and most people aren’t good at all that ah, any of that stuff and all that so that’s tough. So just because you can run the operations you may you may be weaken some of the other as my my operations major Matt. he’s he’s he’s definitely not a spreadsheet guy and all that. So so that’s the challenge in the transition is it would probably be. It is is as I my role diminishes he would have to get a finance person in here to to do a lot of what I do someone is a good numbers person.

 

24:08.60

dybsteve

Okay, it’s interesting. You mentioned vision visionary you had shared in the last podcast in episode 33 that you follow the traction process and and they talk about a visionary and they also talk about needing an integrator.

 

24:08.90

John

That’s not your skill set.

 

24:20.20

John

And.

 

24:27.80

dybsteve

Visionary needs an integrator is that true for you guys? Do you have an integrator as well being that you find yourself being a visionary. So the the integrator is is basically the implementer of the visionary’s plans.

 

24:35.31

John

Ah, what do you mean? I’m not sure what you mean by the integrator.

 

24:45.75

John

Um, um.

 

24:45.79

dybsteve

So a lot of times. It’s ah you know it’s It’s whether it’s a general manager or it’s the admin assistant.

 

24:51.10

John

Yeah, um, well visionary. You do have to have the infi. It’s not necessarily the same person. So I’m not sure I’m the implementer. Ah I know like we took we took like we added kick kitchen cabinet refinishing and ah.

 

25:04.43

dybsteve

Um, in.

 

25:10.72

John

Operations manager identified it before I did but I I ran with it said wow this is crazy good and so um I think we were both involved with implementing. It was a lot It took us about a year develop the processes. The sales processes. We put a $50000 spray booth in ah. But trying to implement something from scratch was basically a a new add on business to what we had ah that that that took ah that that was ah that that took some work but it it had to.

 

25:42.88

John

Had it I had to have the green light for me to to go ahead with it I mean he he came up the idea but he I don’t know if he had a ran with it. But once once side side to run with it. We both we both ran with it. We both we both were involved in that process today I’m less involved with that I’m I’m less less interested I’m obviously selling a lot of those jobs.

 

25:50.78

dybsteve

Um.

 

26:00.22

dybsteve

You.

 

26:02.14

John

But the processes are in place and and now we’re now at most we’re doing is tweaking tweaking things. So.

 

26:07.30

dybsteve

Okay, what are some books you’d recommend to some guys getting going here. Maybe they’re maybe they’re trying to break the million mark yet.

 

26:16.65

John

Um I think traction is a great book. Ah that that has a whole laundry list of stuff that that I like the most is the whole one. They have a whole wanderundry list of all things shouldn’t shouldn’t be doing um I think we don’t we don’t file the traction model complete. But I think it’s it’s a good model. It. It’s. Ah, we we we have weekly meetings and they’re they’re given awful. They’re they’re they’re they’re based a little bit off traction. We don’t we, we’re add into the having the lingo There’s always new lingo in the business world and they know they call them rocks and all that rock. There’s nothing special about calm rocks or anything like that. But but. But.

 

26:46.10

dybsteve

Yeah, yeah.

 

26:54.68

John

But what what traction does is is make people accountable. So when you have meetings people are accountable. What to what they’re what they say they’re going to do and all that so that’s that’s where that’s one of the values ah of traction. There’s there’s lots of great books good to greats is is one of my favorites. Um. Trying to think most of lot of the books I read that that read I younger are I’m not sure if they that as a big fan of Peter Drucker who he would be if he was alive. He’d be like 110 now but he he hit some of the best best business books. The one called the effective executive. It’s a great book if you can find it just tremendous books. The stories are owed but the stuff is really really phenomenal Today. There’s just a flood of books and to me they look like lots of just regurgitated stuff from the original Peter Drucker people yeah there’s only so many of these business books. You can read because a lot of lot of them just say the same things and all that um, as far as customer service goes. Um I would I would recommend. Um, ah the reading the book by. Former head of the ah Disney World resorts and that’s I’m slipping his name right now. But anyways, any reading about Disney Disney Disney is phenomenal on customer service and I’d I’d definitely recommend anything anything with with with with with with dealing with them.

 

28:24.44

dybsteve

Thank you, you ah mentioned that a big mistake that a lot of people make are not staying top of mind to their customer base. What’s what’s another 1 or 2 big opportunities that others are not taking advantage of are doing or executing.

 

28:38.14

John

What’s far thing is it starts as far as taking care of their customers.

 

28:41.00

dybsteve

Well just in business. What are the biggest opportunities or habits that guys are missing out on whether it’s taking care of their customers. Whether it’s their culture whether it’s leadership management skills operations. What do you see.

 

28:56.80

John

Um I think um when you’re doing customers you you. It’s got to do the right thing and that the most profitable thing for in the short term and I think people make that wrong choice very often and.

 

29:06.41

dybsteve

You hear.

 

29:12.85

John

And today with with with like Google reviews and things like that. Yeah, you really you really need to make the right choices or you you’re gonna get you’re gonna going to have bad reviews. But when you’re dealing with customers. You’re again, getting back to the sales process I think of.

 

29:20.21

dybsteve

Are.

 

29:30.10

John

When I’m dealing with customers I’m thinking about them being my mother or a relative of mine and trying to give them the the best advice and and and sometimes that knocks me out of the Sale. So I’m I’m trying to I’m trying to tell them what I I’m trying to help them Along. Um, so so on my routine thing if I’m in a sales call looking at a woodhouse where we have peeling problems up in our part of the country and things like that. It’s very common question is is is have you considered putting vinyl sighting on you know so and and I’m just exploring. They may say Yeah yeah I got some fighting so Finalnyl sighting estimates.

 

29:58.34

dybsteve

You.

 

30:06.00

John

Um, even encourage him to go that way. Um, but so it’s it’s ah again being ah ah, authentic with people and when you’re dealing with customer problems. Ah, my experience is that that one of the worst things you can do is be defensive about it. Ah.

 

30:14.35

dybsteve

Um.

 

30:24.55

John

Ninety Nine 95% of the time. The customer is right about what they’re pointing about it’s usually a communication issue very often. They’re they’re just not making this stuff up I mean there are some bad players with customers that are out to get you maybe. But if your perception is that that’s that that that most the customers are that way that that those are your tapes that that I mean that’s your problem because month when you go out when you go out and deal with issues with customers. They’re they’re right most of the time.

 

30:56.22

dybsteve

Yeah, in do ah no, just for context here when you say it’s your tape I Think what you mean is that that’s your story that you have in your head and it’s it’s not correct. We need to change that right.

 

31:07.84

John

Ah, we we were’re all stuck with lots of ah of tapes from our our life experience and um, you get you gotta get I’ll give an example of a tape we we did in the past we did.

 

31:12.67

dybsteve

The.

 

31:23.62

John

Ands very unsuccessfully did a couple high school job fairs and so we got solicited this year on another job fair in another school system years later and we could ah we could have just said ah that that didn’t work. We’re not gonna do it and 1 of my managers went with one of the painters. And we probably probably will get probably 6 7 8 hires out of out of that that of doing that job. Fair. So so if you just if your tapes are running you say no, it doesn’t work. We’re not trying that. Yeah okay, it won’t work good good god bless you.

 

31:45.94

dybsteve

Um, and.

 

31:56.89

John

But but we we we tried it again and it it works and now now we’re now we’re interested in it. We saw how it worked We think we can We think if we get if we can find those situations we can make those work. So.

 

32:07.42

dybsteve

Indeed yeah, six seven at your first attempt. That’s that’s that’s very successful. Well done.

 

32:12.33

John

That was totally totally worth it and you know I had very I didn’t go to it was I’m one of my managers 1 of our painters and I had very low I I had very low expectations and I told him going in. Don’t worry about it. This may just may not work and all that but it did work really well.

 

32:28.29

dybsteve

Fantastic John I really appreciate you coming on. Is there a question I should have asked or some final points that you’d like to make.

 

32:31.51

John

Yeah, okay.

 

32:42.80

John

Ah I’m not sure what what? What? what? what type of question you’re looking for. Okay, okay.

 

32:44.68

dybsteve

Um, you know what? I just love another one any management or leadership training resources that you like or that have helped you out or that you recommend for others.

 

32:56.55

John

Um, ah I think you just have to look and see in your community. What’s what’s offered for small businesses I you know I think every community has a small business community and.

 

33:12.29

John

You can be helped helped out by that one of the things I did was I joined organization which I’m no longer involved with but it’s called’s organization and what? what? What? What What’s done in that is you join a group of entrepreneurs that are not in your business. And you you meet once a month for 4 hours and it’s it’s totally confidential and we get down to the 1% in that business I mean in in our meetings. So we ah we we know stuff about each other sometimes our spouses don’t know. And so it’s part therapy and part business and so the group I was in and I’m still in but so we we we actually we actually 7 of us continue that we we we no longer belong to the’s organization. But we’re we continue to meet. We’re meeting currently 4 times a year and we meet for 6 hours and one of those meetings is a retreat we’re going up the main for 3 3 nights and coming up in August and it and and 3 of the people are sold their businesses for a crazy amount of money so you get see see you really have ah a great. Ah. Ah, resource the that you can ask questions and it’s just a phenomenal phenomenal resource. That’s one resource and eo is in almost any community in the us so you can find an eo organization that would be a good start I think I think the sales might.

 

34:46.17

John

We made a limiting factor I believe you have to have a million in sales so that so that would limit that would limit some people but but there’s but but all the different business groups in every community yeah have different resources to train stuff and obviously today ah online you can find almost anything you want.

 

34:49.96

dybsteve

Um.

 

35:04.35

John

You could spend there. You could spend a night on Youtube and and get the crazy amount of business training that that’s that’s really really rough phenomena I listened to an interview from the guy that Jim Collins from good to great I’ve just found on Youtube one that when I was listened to it ah about a month ago I was on a walk and i. But bored with podcasts and I so I said Don listen to some Jim Colens and I found some Jim Cols and it was phenomenal. You know I already already heard all the stories and read all the stories but still still really great to hear it fresh out of his mouth and all that. So.

 

35:29.54

dybsteve

Um.

 

35:35.68

dybsteve

Yeah, indeed and I was just reading ah reviewing his chapter and good to great on the flywheel as I was studying inertia to to breakthroughs and you know just trying to get different perspectives on it because it’s It’s really key to.

 

35:48.44

John

Yeah, yeah.

 

35:51.60

dybsteve

To to get that going and so yeah I was just in that book a few nights ago reviewing that um and then for those I agree with you I believe that everybody should be in a pure group and that’s why you know do ib has mastermind groups and and even mastermind groups for those who are startups or you know half million and work on their way to a million.

 

36:01.20

John

Because.

 

36:10.58

dybsteve

And so it’s you know a great option for them to consider. Ah if they kiss if they can’t get into the million plus groups out there. But appreciate that.

 

36:10.74

John

Mm.

 

36:17.64

John

Yeah, all all those all the stumbling blocks and all the things that are are that are that cause you difficulties in growing. Um, if you’re if you’re like a peer group you you talk to people they’re they. They’ve been there and and they’re and they’re willing to help you with. Things that are stumbling blocks that that are causing you to if you want it if you want to grow there are stopping you from growing my business men are called it wingspan and some people have a little bit of wingspan. Then there’s people that can run multibillion dollar organizations that got crazy incredible super genius wingspan which most of us don’t have but but but it it is wingspan and you have to be willing to trust that other people are going to do things and do them well sometimes better than you. And unfortunately sometimes not as well as you but but you’re not going to grow unless you you’re willing length length what that happened so but but there’s really no reason why people cannot build successful organizations that are decent decent size

 

37:15.66

dybsteve

Um.

 

37:23.26

dybsteve

Indeed. Absolutely John thank you again for coming back on. Thank you for being such a long standing valued member appreciate you and appreciate our friendship if somebody wanted to reach out to you. What’s the best way.

 

37:26.33

John

And.

 

37:38.12

John

Ah, they reach out probably just email me at ah John atduwardtpa.com which you can get that on our off our website uberpain.com so

37:46.78

dybsteve

John andubberpaining.com we’ll link to that in the ah show notes as well. Thanks again. John.

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